Hello

[Sandra61]

I hope it went well, Sarah. 

[Sarah83]

It went ok so far. He is being reasonable at the moment and understands that it is something that he has done and it’s not just me trying to do him over and take his money. I keep telling him we have to do the best thing for our daughter. We need to figure out how to get him to move out. He has no family here to go to. I can’t afford to pay him his share of the house and he doesn’t want to sell in the current market. I don’t want any of his money or pensions and the only thing I could suggest is :

A, we draw up something that says he can force a sale or I buy him out when our daughter turns 16, or

B, he signs over his half of the house to our daughter. One of his main concerns is that I meet  another man and I leave the house to him not daughter.

He has enough money for a deposit or he can rent, he has a good salary also.

I’m quite happy to take no savings so he can put it on a flat or something, he can keep his pension I just want to sort out the house so we can move back home. He will be much better off financially than me after the initial move, I just want to be free to build myself back up again mentally!

[Sandra61]

Well done, Sarah. I would still get some advice though. You don't want to leave yourself with less than you should have. Sounds like you coped well though, so that's a great first step. I am sure your dad would be proud of you. 

[Karena]

well done on getting as far as you did - a couple of things - first of all his argument that you might meet some-one else is partly valid in as much as that if you married that person and didnt make a will the house, or your share of it,  would default to the new husband if something happened to you, however that argument also stands against him as he could meet and marry some-one else and his share revert to her - but as you are not divorced yet it cant happen in either case as neither of you can re-marry until you are (living together counts for nothing - a friend of mine just got evicted after living in for nearly 30 years as he hadnt got divorced so his ex wasnt legally his ex but still his wife)
so of course all this is to be considered in future, so for example if you did re-marry you could make a will leaving it to your daughter - and he could sign his half over to her as part of a divorce settlement so no future children or wives of his could make a claim on it -  but again you are racing ahead,  him moving out now doesnt take away his rights as part owner, and is not a valid excuse for him to remain there - given that your daughter is living in far from ideal conditions it is him who should move out -at that point you would be separated but until you are actually divorced he has the same legal rights as though you were together.

If he has a good salary then couch surfing is not what he needs to do and not having anywhere to go and do that is also not an excuse - he could rent somewhere until the other issues are sorted out, i dont see the house market taking a sudden rise with brexit on the horizon so him sitting there until it does and he can sell later is just not an option, as i said further up the post his absence from the property doesnt take away his legal  rights.
Maybe you could explain that too him and that the divorce will include mediation where you can tackle these other issues and meanwhile you will  "help" him look for somewhere.   
 

[Sarah83]

Hi Guys, it was just small step but at least he recognised that I have no intention of getting back with him. Up until now he has been hoping. He also recognises that he needs to move out and we need to go home. None of this is mine to bear anymore and certainly not my little girl. I have put my happiness on hold for a long time in hope but it just isn’t worth it anymore. One thing my dads death has taught me and from reading others posts on forums is that death is definite and you get one go and I’m wasting it at the moment. Although deep down I do love my husband and love the idea of a family unit what I think I’d like and what we have are two very different things. I hope this doesn’t seem horrible but me and my husband had two very different upbringings, his was very violent and mine the opposite. My dad worked hard at being a great dad and my husbands dad was terrible. My h has never dealt with it and is using the same behaviour on me. My dad does not deserve it and neither do I, I hate to sound horrible but it not my burden to carry anymore. If I don’t stop it then it will become my daughters burden and her children and so on. I hope it doesn’t seem selfish.  I will help my husband as much as I can and have always done so.

I fear that when actual figures are discussed things will probably turn uglier again , as I’m not intending to take any physical cash so he can stand on his own feet but expect this to be reflected when we sort out who owns how much of the house. I’m kind of hoping to get one of those orders that we hold the sale until daughter is 16, hopefully then I could buy him out. I really want to advice him to rent instead of making any hasty decisions about buying but I get the feeling he won’t go until he can buy! All of this is so so complicated and difficult when you walking on egg shells!

[Sandra61]

Of course you don't sound horrible or selfish, Sarah! You sound like you are being practical and thinking of what is best for you and your daughter. That is exactly what you need to do, so keep focusing on that. As you say, your husband's past is for him to deal with, not you.

I am not a lawyer, but a friend of mine got divorced and she and her children were able to stay in the house until her youngest child reached the age of 18, then the house was sold and the money divided. She too was living in her grandmother's house, which they had bought at a reduced price, so she was in a similar situation to you. I think you are entitled to remain until your child comes of age, but speak to CAB and they will know better. Ask them too about division of assets. You need to do what is fair, not give everything else to your husband out of guilt. I am sure the divorce will settle these things fairly, so don't be in too much of a rush to hand over your joint savings. You are entitled to a share of this too, I am sure, if only for the sake of your daughter.

Anyway, this sounds like a good start, so keep moving in this direction and you will feel better that progress is being made. I think if your husband now accepts that you will not change your mind, this will help move things along, but stand up for yourself and your daughter and don't be too hasty to give away your assets!

Good luck, Sarah! I am sure your dad would be pleased you are making progress and don't neglect your own feelings. Feelings can not be buried and ignored. They will need some kind of release, so do spend some time doing something to continue getting yourself through losing him. You will find everything building up like a pressure cooker otherwise. Losing your dad is something else that is happening to you, so you need to go on dealing with that too. Different areas of your life, but both are important to acknowledge and manage. Keep going, Sarah! Very well done! 

[Karena]

I agree you are not being selfish you are being a mum protecting your daughter and by default protecting your self as she needs you to bring her up - Its very sad when violence moves down famillies like this and very frequent and some-one has to stop that going on to even more generations, its a shame your husband hasnt been able to deal with it - perhaps he simply hasnt had the opportunity, but as a friend outside the marriage maybe you can help him find help, not something that you can do inside the marriage as the victim of that abuse - or perhaps he will chose to continue his way, but either way you are not to blame for any of it.

[Sarah83]

Oh here we go, now he is starting to get horrible again. He now doesn’t want to give me anything. Says he will sign over his equity to our daughter out of good will but will give nothing else and not pay maintenance 😕 I won’t be able to survive without the maintenance, it will mean our daughter will suffer.

[Sarah83]

This is he last msg I received....I'm willing to walk away and start from scratch.You don't have a pension or savings because of your own laziness and lack of ambition please don't put your problems on my shoulders as I have enough of my own thank you.

[Karena]

Wow what a ****
First of all he may have no choice but to pay maintainance for your daughter.

Second - much good may it do him to have pension and savings if he continues to drive away the people in his life, because they are what matters far more than money.

Third laziness - really ?  i wonder which one of you got up in the night to feed the baby,cooked the meals, cleaned the house etc etc = marriage is suposed to be a parnership, having a child means that one person in that partnership will normally do more paid hours than the other because the child has requirements and both partners are resposible for that  - laziness is not defined by how much paid work we do - from what you say of how he has treated the house since you left i think his own laziness is pretty much staring him in the face every time he walks in.

Fourthly - dont have a row and repeat all that i just wrote,( can you tell i,m angry on your behalf now) dont give him the satisfaction, he is heading for the door firing derogatory comments over his shoulder -still trying to undermine you, maybe still trying to make you see how much you depend on him - you dont.

But take it on board you are not to blame you are not lazy, this is his obsession which you no longer need to be concerned with and you have plenty of time in the future to think about your financial security -so dont let him undermine you with that sort of comment, let him walk away with his  "gesture of goodwill"  -  you already have proved him wrong by finding the strength to leave. That strength is something you will build on and your dad would be so proud of it, it is a gift from him you will never lose.
It will carry you and your daughter forward and she will have gain far more from your strength and love and emotional support than his money could ever buy her, and an abuse free home is going to be the massive starting block for her too.  

[Sarah83]

Karena all he has managed to do is squash any glimmer of regret I had over leaving him. Thank god I kept my strength to carry on with my decision and although he is not here a large amount of that strength is from my dad. He is willing me on, I can here him telling me ‘go girl, don’t give up now’.

Yes, some of what he said is true. I have my faults, most of which manifested themselves as a symptom of the way he treated me. Now I’m going to make damn sure I learn how to be happy and successful without him, to show him that he is wrong and to show my dad that he was right, I’m worth it! The last few months although they have been hard the emotional hold my Husband has on me is slipping. I don’t care anymore what he thinks of me. Don’t get me wrong I will never just try and “do him over” as that will cause damage to our daughter.

He is offering to sign over the house with £140,000 equity in exchange for me not taking any CM and him taking the pension/savings of roughly £40,000. His CM payments would be about £300 a month so it works out pretty much 50/50 and  happy with that. I’m even more happy that it would be a clean  break, I am tempted!

[Karena]

I can see why you would be tempted - especially as it means a clean break -but please get some legal advice over it -CAB is free and its a starting point they can at least give you some advice.

What is he actually offering - is that half the current value of the house or half the value when you bought it -is this his estimate of the current value, or has it actually been valued.
Its not actually going to cost him anything in real term present day cash, to sign it over except potentially some admin fees of some sort.
 
As for child maintainance i dont know what the current system is but under the old one - if you had to give up work or lost your job for any reason - income support was cut by almost a third  if you refused to go through the CSA - who then took money from the absent parent but didnt give it direct to you, it went into the system and you got the full income support rate (one suspects the CS were taking a big cut) .
 As i said the system has changed and i dont know how it works now - but you need to know -because your circumstances could also easilly change, you have a lot of years ahead with your daughter being your dependant - something for which he apparently thinks he should not make any contribution towards - and with owning your house things like buildings insurance and building maintainance costs have to be considered as well unlike with a rental .

It feels to me, a bit like he could be making it up as he goes along - does he know the legal situation with child maintainance - is he even allowed to not pay any - will there be repurcussions for you by agreeing too accept his terms now.

I dont know the answers, but please be very careful, and as i say arm yourself with some legal advice before you agree . I totally get that a clean break would be so very tempting right now and i have no doubt you are more than capable of making a good life for yourselves without him - but be careful not to think purely short term as we none of us know whats round the corner, so even if its just for back up, the more you know about your position if certain conditions arise the better prepared you will be in case they do.

[Sandra61]

I absolutely agree with Karena, Sarah. I don't think a father is probably allowed not to contribute to his child's upkeep. I am sure your divorce settlement lawyers will have something to say about that too.

A clean break would be lovely, but I too, would pause to think before taking any offer he made. He is the one with a good wage from what you say. You need to be very careful if you don't have such a good income. Everything is very expensive these days and especially when you have a child. Children don't understand the cost of things and have high expectations nowadays, from trainers that cost upwards of £65.00 to schools asking you for a contribution towards the cost of books! You will need money. Your daughter will need money. The house and the bills will cost money. If you want to run a car, that will cost money. Your husband is a parent to your daughter too. He does not have the right to walk away and leave you both out in the cold to fend for yourselves! Having a house or a share in a house is no good if you can't afford to stay there and keep it in good repair!

As Karena urges, please, please go and get some proper advice. You are looking at years of struggle ahead of you without proper financial support and the clean break you think your husband is offering now may not remain so clean a break either. As time goes on, he may want contact with his daughter. It is best to get whatever the law may deem due to you now than to let him walk away with nothing legally set in place to forearm you against all the problems you may find coming your way in the future and better to let this be done by lawful process now, than have to find yourself having to deal with him without that legal footing to support you at a later date.

Take care and be cautious, Sarah. Wishing you well..

[Sarah83]

Hi guys, I definitely agree with some of the cautions you have flagged up, I too have thought about all those things.  What I have been thinking about though is the future my Husband is looking to live.  At the moment he is self employed so immediately hinders the amount of Child maintenance I would be getting.  Also he wants to open a shop, now going on past experience my H is useless when it comes to how the world works, computers, keeping accounts etc, I did all of it.  I would probably end up in a situation where at worse he would end up bankrupt or at least a sudden drop in payments and I would probably have to fight for it each month.  I thought if he just signed over the house he would just be guaranteeing those payments.  Effectively 13 years of the current level of CM would equal his half of the equity. I would then suggest he paid and agreed amount into savings each month for her and also he would have to contribute towards non everyday payments like school trips etc.  He loves his daughter so I do think he would help her, also he has her 2 days a week. It would probably have to be an agreement between ourselves tho as no court would agree to it.

Oh I don't know, a lot of my thinking is just on speculation.  I think I would probably be put in a situation by the court of having a charge against the house where I would have to sell when our daughter reached 16 to give him his money, this is what usually happens and I don't want to be in that situation of doing it up, spending money just to sell it. By then also it could go up in value and he would get it without paying into it.

Oh god I wish my dad was here to help me, but if I really thought about it he would probably tell me to get shot of him and have no need of his money as its so unreliable.  I'm very lucky in that my dad worked hard and left my mum in a good financial position and she does and will continue to help me a great deal. To be honest if my dad was here he would probably pay off the mortgage once it had all gone through and were divorced.  Maybe my mum would but I'm not relying on that as you can only rely on yourself.

I've been feeling these really heavy feelings again lately about dad.  I had a few good days and now the last couple of nights I could feel my body starting to panic again.  I am trying so hard not to let it get me but I can feel the waves coming up.  I just so badly want all of this over so I can feel some peace.  I think also maybe my dad is not at peace because of me and my situation.

[Karena]

 I am sending you a private message with some links you might find useful.